Episode 46 - The Self, Spirituality, Metaphysics & The Divine | Mohammed Isaaq
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The Science of the Four Temperaments, The Spiritual & The Material, Knowing your Self, Psychology, the True Reality, Adherence to the Sunnah, Relationships, Personal Experiences.
We discuss all this in-depth with Mohammed Isaaq.
Mohammed Isaaq is a student of knowledge, and has studied the science of the temperaments alongside his traditional studies. He has been teaching Arabic studies, Theology, and is heavily involved in community projects such as the OpenCircle youth initiative and Ghazali Children's Project.
Hosts : Tanzim & Malik
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Shownotes
Tanzim: 00:00:01 Assalamu Alaykum Welcome back to another of boys in the cave. My name is Tanzim your cohost for today and I'm also joined by a special cohost. Many of you may know him in Sydney, Malik. Um, he's the founder of Mizan Avenue in Sydney. MashAllah has a lot of stories to share, so I'm really excited for this and Alhamdullilah he also does amazing work in the community. And I'll put the links to Mizan Avenue in our show notes in shaa Allah, everyone around the world can inshallah check it out and alhamdullilah We're joined by someone very special today. Our special guests is Isaaq Muhammad. He's a secondary school mathematics teacher by profession, student of knowledge and has studied the science of the temperament alongside his traditional studies. He has been teaching Arabic Studies, theology and he's heavily involved in community projects such as the open circle youth initiative and Ghazali children's projects so Assalamu alaykum Isaaq and umm Malik and welcome to boys in the cave (Walaykum Assalam). Um, I know you touched down not too long ago in Sydney. Uh, and he did a workshop actually with the four temperaments and that was sold out aye Malik,
Malik: 00:01:26 yea subhanAllah It's sold out. The first one sold out in less than 48 hours. And then we open up another session the following day and that also sold out. Um, it was an incredible, incredible workshop, but I'll let them hammer talk about that.
Tanzim: 00:01:38 Yes, I have. How'd you find, well, how was the experience with that? Just come to Sydney and teaching the courses?
Isaaq: 00:01:43 Yeah, it was, um, it was nice. Uh, they actually asked me yesterday, um, you know, how was this different to the other ones? And I think, um, you know, I, I thought about it quite a bit and I think, uh, I just felt like the, the crowd, the audience, uh, the seekers, the students already, I felt like they were ready and that that 48 hours, the fact that the tickets were sold out in 40 hours for the first program just shows and reflect the intentions of the people. Because when they saw that it wasn't really based off of actually having studied the four temperaments or having sat in a class with me or something. But it was them reading the title, knowing yourself and they had a plea when they signed up to a law saying I would like to know myself. And it's also the intentions. It's always in the intentions. They can anything in any person, in any thing for anything to be off something. It's in the intentions when the intentions are there, the act has a weight to it. When the intentions aren't there. Then you miss out on on really taking anything from the act,
Tanzim: 00:02:46 Mashallah and with, because you open up the washer on Saturday, I think you did the Sunday one because he got sold out. It seems like people around the world, cause you've traveled around the world going to different cities. People are really yearning for this sort of stuff. Yeah. And what's your experience been about that in particular at this point in time?
Isaaq: 00:03:03 Well you think that, you know, after having taught the same class 20 times in over like seven countries, that it would get boring or it would get repetitive or in some way it would be come a bit mundane and that energy wouldn't be there. And he witnessed the two classes on the weekend and he also witnessed how different both classes were. Because when it's knowing yourself, then it's your responses as someone who's in the class you, it's your journey. The teachers, there is only there to facilitate, but it's your journey and whatever. And however you respond on whatever steps you take and how strong your steps are, how from your sub site and your responses and your engagement in the workshop. It's not that it's for six hours or for four hours. I mean, people who study full time would have a difficult time to see in one class for six hours straight.
Isaaq: 00:03:49 But when it's a workshop, uh, there's far more engagement and in that's why each of them have been very different. Every single second. Not one session has been the same for me in, in all these different places. And that's why, uh, you know, it's, it's uh Alhamdullilah, you know, the response of people is the success of, and I always share it with people like the role responses. Um, and it's amazing. It's on it, it's a pleasure to just have like facilitated it by whatever degree, but it's them just getting closer to themselves and the so much in that
Tanzim: 00:04:19 and molecule actually in the classes. How was your experience in general and just for the audience, can you clarify what is hoc kind of cities huck a specializes in?
Malik: 00:04:28 I'll get him to clarify that, but what I'll talk about is pretty much the, yeah, for my experience. I think the program, and I was speaking to Isaaq about this yesterday, that you know, a lot of times where we do classes, um, you know, a lot of the teachers are pretty much articulating what our tradition says and sometimes it can get very theoretical. But what I found with this program was that it was very practical and he forced people to really, uh, to think about their relationship with themselves first and then their relationship with the last panel town. And in that it was very confronting for, even for myself. And I've sat through these, uh, previously as well, and I've known him for quite some time and he's explained, um, you know, the four temperaments and the science, uh, to me, but Sydney for the program, it is quite confining and you're starting to pick up on things that you knew about yourself, but it was like you're doing like subconsciously, uh, and then you starting to realize, you know, this is my temperament, these are my weaknesses. And being really real with yourself with what your weaknesses are. And then starting starting to think about, you know, how can I motivate those weaknesses? Um, and how can I, you know, just be real with myself. Um, so I think for a lot of people that was confronting, but there was a lot of beauty in that because it's now I have to be real with myself so I can get closer to my Lord. Uh, so I think that was incredible.
Isaaq: 00:05:59 Um, but yeah, I think Muhammad, uh, for those who don't know about the science of four temperaments, uh, could you explain that? Yeah. Um, so the science itself is, uh, is one that goes back around two and a half thousand years, uh, all the way to the group, all the, all the way to the Greeks actually. Um, and it was originally, uh, looked at from a physician's perspective, uh, how do we deal with the human beings condition physiologically. So there's illnesses that start to come about, um, uh, there's illnesses and how can we treat those illnesses. So it's foundations were in traditional medicine. Um, but as it continued, there was also other theories that were coming about, such as Plato in, in, in his republic, he speaks about four chief virtues. Um, so there was separate discoveries sort of taking place, um, in different theories and studies of the human being of the human condition and all these different, uh, from these different perspectives.
Isaaq: 00:06:51 But as time went on, the, you know, scientists of these, of these, uh, sciences started to make connections. And especially when been seen, our came under, the Muslims came across the science because the science was in line with the [inaudible]. So this was [inaudible], you know, the, the Greek medicine. But it was in line with prophetic medicine. Um, but they also started to make these connections between these four temperaments, these four chief temperaments, uh, and, uh, the behavior of a human being. And it was in line with what the teachings of the prophets [inaudible] was. So you had the contributions by someone like even been seen. And then in mammoth has Ali, if you look at in the disciplining the soul, he's, he's actually referring to the four chief virtues and how they are, how they correlate to the human being, these four temperaments. So, you know, the science was vast.
Isaaq: 00:07:39 And then you had many other scholars, uh, [inaudible] sooty many scholars who wrote a book on [inaudible] but also books in other sciences such as interfere books. Uh, these four temperaments are actually referenced. And there was a student who actually came to me and he said, he said, I'm so glad you're teaching this stuff. Uh, he said, because when I was studying to see, um, he said, I started looking at these terms and it's demo he and balcony. And he said, I hadn't had, I didn't have a clue what that means. Uh, he's a technically when I read the mov, Eh, the translation was like a bloody person them, right. And Belica me was a Flemmi person. What does that mean? The Flemmi temperament. So there's so [inaudible] and anyone who wrote it of seed was a polymath. So they had studied the sciences. That's why they were referencing the sciences.
Isaaq: 00:08:28 And if you do study tough series, you have to be qualified to have studied all these other sciences to truly understand what that [inaudible] is saying. But anyway, and so, so that's its role in our tradition. And it was continued all the way to two. When modern medicine came, it was sort of rejected only because certain things weren't, um, weren't seen by, by scientists who, you know, it's empiricism, it's, uh, what can we see a and see because they couldn't see certain of the four fluids and they rejected it. However, in psychology it's pretty much there. Um, but the science itself, to put it simply, it's essentially is essentially saying that all human beings have these four fluids within them. And one of them is a dominant one is a sub dominant, and then the other two are there. So in each of us we have this and this combination results in, in who you are.
Isaaq: 00:09:12 This is your nature as opposed to your as a, as a p as opposed to your nurture. So are nurturing could be different, but your natures are the same. And if you work out your temperament and you can work out, for example, if you two here had the same nature though, you would think you're also different via your nurturing. You would say for example, son tonight I want to go to the cinema. And he would say, I want to go to the theater. That's because of your nurturing. You're probably used to cinemas and he's used to the theater. Um, but if you look at your nature, your nature might be sanguine for example, that likes entertainment. And so we can find out that where you guys meet. And that's the beauty of the science is all about universals. It's not about the particulars that we experienced as human beings.
Isaaq: 00:09:51 It's the universals. And once you get into the universals and anyone has experienced universals, it's one of the most powerful tools you can ever get. The Koran hadith all university speaking, uh, Rumi's poetry, universal. Most poetry spoke poetry universals. That's why they, they appeal to different human beings of different backgrounds, right? Because it's speaking to me at a universal level and that's what this, it gives you the tools. It gave me the tools that I never had any intention to actually put this workshop together. Originally, I just used the science where I studied it and I wanted to just, um, eh, I just used it upon myself for a number of years. I'd say about three years. I just used it on myself. And when I came back, uh, one of my sisters actually, she wasn't really convinced in the science because she wasn't settled in. She was, she's at a particular temperament now.
Isaaq: 00:10:42 It makes sense to me why she wasn't convinced. And eventually after looking at her through this lens, I realized she's a melancholic. So she needs the detailed explanations upon a lot. So I put the detailed explanation together for her. And I invited the friends and family and they all came and they loved it because everyone finds themselves. And when I show it show, it comes to this, he said, he goes, ah, do you know why the Beatles are so successful? Because each of them with a full clear archetypes of the four temperaments. So Parnell, and so when, when people saw them, they saw a complete group first and foremost. And secondly, everyone could appeal to them. And, and this isn't just exclusive to that. I mean, in the Catholic tradition, they was sitting temperaments six months before people would get married, just so they can understand the enough's their universal, that they're the part of themselves that just doesn't really entirely change.
Isaaq: 00:11:34 Uh, and so it's, it's crucial. This is the science and, um, you know, many, uh, you know, Shit. Yeah. Here I was saying that it's, it's, uh, it's a, of a, it's, it's extremely important for parents to know the temperaments of their children so they can look after them properly as well. You know, and if you have two different temperament in the same household who have the same nurture, they have two different, very, two different experiences in the same household. And you ever come across that two siblings in the same household, same nurturing, the two very different experiences. One of the, one of them says, ah, they just didn't get me. They just don't get me. And the other one stays [inaudible] right? [inaudible] and then the other one says, uh, why are you weird? Why don't you just accept things that look as perfect mom and dad did a, you know, it's a friend did a good job, but it works.
Isaaq: 00:12:22 But it works for your temperament. It doesn't work for the other one's temperament. And we've spoken about the same temperaments on a macro level, on a, uh, on a political, geopolitical level. Looking at this, it's just that the scope of it is so vast. Seoul vast, uh, you can look at understanding political positions by or temperaments. You can look at people reacting to uh, global, uh, or at least, uh, you know, certain events within their communities and that their responses are actually temperament based and to [inaudible] on a macro level and on a micro level, on a, a within a household. How do people respond within the household and then how do you respond with yourself? And that's what we do at the knowing of program is to sit with yourself first and foremost. You know, mostly people do these personality and I've going on quite a bit, but people do these personality tests.
Isaaq: 00:13:14 People say to me, why don't you put a questionnaire in the workshop? I say, because mostly when people do question is just lying to themselves. It's just what they want. And I always say to people, when we did ask those questions in the work, I asked these universal based questions after they've done a lot of reflecting and ask these questions and people write the answers down and then I say, okay, now imagine if your sibling was next to you or your close friend was next to you. What would they say about your answers? And then you see people laughing cause it's very different because you're diluted. Unfortunately we are all very have some form of delusion with ourselves. We, yeah, that's why there's such a dissonance in our communities. Even when myself and there's this, there's this dissonance that starts to happen and unless we faced that, these uncomfortable emotions that we sit with absolutely sit with it first and foremost, people are sick. That's why they just mask it away. And this run off to something else
Tanzim: 00:14:03 I bought two points to bring up. One would be just to, cause I do want to go deep into like the temperaments itself. So people, um, whoever listening to this can kind of gate get an idea of who they are as well. But just a critique of 'em the four temperaments. Some people may say, oh I'm saying this, I don't know if other people say this but you know, for example, cause I come from business economics background as well. So for example, when you people, when they see certain situations occur in the world, they take a economical lens. So they're like, okay, I'm going to read this through economics. And get an understanding of what's happening. So I can not predict what will happen in the future. This and that. Would you say that some people may say that you have the four him human temperaments, but you're reading people but you're reading through a lens of seeing it as the forehead human temperaments, but you can critique that Lendl like what would your response,
Isaaq: 00:14:53 yeah, so, so there's always that case of um, know maybe you're looking at it from this perspective and if we would state that perspective out of it, then we can still look at the human being via other lenses. Uh, the difference. And, and that's true. Like of course you can, you can ignore the temperament and you can just look at things from a different lens that, that the difference days is that that's all particular base. So you studied a particular science, you will see the world based on your particulars. So if you study business, you will always see things by our business lens naturally or whatever else you've euro by in your life. The difference here is, is once you start to factor in the temperaments in your perspective. So even looking at it from a business perspective, what I'll say to you is, is the four temperaments, there's, so even within your class, for example, in a business studies class or there's four different types of, uh, of, of ways of looking at it from a business perspective and these four, this, this way of looking at it, why are these four our constants?
Isaaq: 00:15:45 So for example, when I was putting this project together, I, if I, I thought this signs was like a lost science. And advertising companies till today are using the same science to identify, identify four different types of, uh, of, uh, of consumers. Uh, there's many different, um, there's the disc analysis. I don't know if you've ever heard of the disc analysis. It's based on the four temperaments. There's the behavioral theory via these colors for, based on these four, Myers-Briggs 16. Right? It's a combination of the four temperament. So, you know, if someone doesn't need it, doesn't want to look at it via that Lens, that's fine. You don't have to. But what I would say to them is this, but give it a go and it'll never be the same guarantee. It'll never be the same because you'll start to see an important part of the human being.
Isaaq: 00:16:29 We aren't just our particulars. In fact, there's other parts of ourselves we're not looked at. Normally. When I, I introduced the science, I sort of draw a square on the, on the board and I say, what shape is this? And people say it's a square and I just draw it from changing his perspective perspective at night and I draw the rest of the basically is a cube. And I say just by changing it we've realized it's a completely different shape to what we thought by changing our perspective. And this is the, the key. So that business person who says, oh, but I'm looking at it from this lens and you're looking at it from that lens difference between me and you is as I'm saying, I'm looking at it from both. And if I know more, I look at it via other lenses and that's the best, the beauty of a liberated mind is able to be to consider all these different perspectives when dealing with a human being. That's called holistic, a holistic approach.
Tanzim: 00:17:13 I've got a, um, point to add in here cause um, I've set this in like every podcast is a, um, book, um, code, um, something, something success to achieve six off what the title of the book. But it gives you, you would have been familiar with this picture of this woman that's like a beautiful looking woman and it is another, but in the book it says people, most people see it as a beautiful woman, but there's another perspective and they, in the book it tells you you don't flip to the next page until you see the other perspective. And I'm like, I can't, I can't see it in any other way. And then I think another page actually tells you it's like an old woman. So I'm like, the hell, how's this? How's this gonna work? So I've been looking, I lose looking at for like 20 minutes. I'm like, I can now see it now. Actually see, cause the way the pictures made, B can be looked at birth at a as a beautiful woman or very old and depressing looking woman. So I'm like, it's kind of links. Yeah.
Isaaq: 00:18:04 Isn't it interesting that once you, so you spend those 20 minutes about once you see her,
Tanzim: 00:18:09 you can never unsee. Yeah. That's the beauty of training the mind.
Isaaq: 00:18:13 Once you see, you can never unsee. And one of the reasons why this for temperament works in people come in as critical and skeptical. And I always say give it a chance because I'm yet to see someone who's by the end completely rejected. The only reason why you accept it. And even myself, the first time I did it, I thought I wasn't too sure about it. Still at the end of it I said, I'm not sure. But the reason why it works is because you've already experienced the four temperaments. You experienced them in nature, the four seasons. You experienced them via the four elements. In fact, you know, when I first used to do the workshop, I would describe the four temperaments to people themselves. So I would speak about the four temperaments, uh, and it's, you know, the strengths and weaknesses and so on. But more recently I've changed that approach where actually, uh, I oppose it. There's an activity that we do where I ask everyone to describe one of the elements. I see. Describe fire as a person,
Tanzim: 00:19:08 like angry, aggressive, and people keep going. And it's amazing because you keep going. I'm really short tempered, um, destructive. Um, not beautiful. Um, one blanking. Sorry. Thanks. A podcast. Maybe that's, sorry. Yeah, no, but just look at those four that you mentioned. Yeah.
Isaaq: 00:19:30 The start over the four of the five or six that you mentioned. Um, all of those can and, and the more you do it and the more you go through it, so it's not very transparent, it's straightforward and very powerful. Um, has a presence. These eventually, as you start to look at this archetype of a personality fits many people that we know.
Tanzim: 00:19:49 Yeah, no lie. Yeah. Your name jumps into my mind. And isn't that amazing? You only did six of them. Imagine in a classroom
Isaaq: 00:19:55 people, and we don't just stick with the one. I mean I sat with the one answer that you gave, but he's been there. Whenever anyone says anything, I say, what do you mean? And then they describe it. So when someone says, Oh, fire is harmful, for example, what do you mean? Oh, if I get too close to it or even if I'm far away, I'm feeding it. There's people out there that when they come into the room, we just know of their presence, even if they are on the opposite side of the room, even if they're not in my conversation over here, but they're over there, whereas there's the water type. Right. Uh, and, and, and if I were to describe water, how would you describe water?
Tanzim: 00:20:26 Um, calm, chilled, um, introverted but bit more intelligent in the sense that I can kind of transition into like conversations without creating too much of a fuss. Just see. What do you think he's, what do you think you could work at? You can work out what he is by. The answers that he gave are really fire. How useful fire
Isaaq: 00:20:48 was from the perspective of war. So you put your po for water, you spoke far more positively
Malik: 00:20:55 then you did for fire. I think it's the same Ryan a right? Yeah. And you spoke about speaking, you almost escaping yourself. Yeah.
Isaaq: 00:21:03 And I've only just met you father and you could, I mean I asked you that question that what you just said about water that the character sees that you gave. Not entirely. I'm not saying that we, some of you all are you into these things that you mentioned, but this is describing another type of a person that we know. What's also interesting is what a person would look at fire as sometimes harmful. Whereas if asked to fire people, they would say fire's useful. It's true. They are from the perspective of fire. Yeah. Now I've just given you like like two, like, like 1% of it. Imagine we sit and we discuss some people, people with listening, thinking, oh that's a bit too simple. Honestly, it is kind of simple. So we have this constant conversation. Are we all entirely unique? And is it case by case with all human beings or is it one size fits all? And what this science is providing us is it's not one size fits all. No, is it, we're all entirely unique. We're somewhat predictable from some perspective. Mashallah,
Malik: 00:22:01 the summit. So many questions, comment on why. Yeah, that's what I always happens. I think we were talking about it during our car rides. Um, and you were talking about just sitting with yourself and I think that's something that this program forces you to do, just to sit with yourself and with your thought and pretty much a nurturing everything that you bring to the table. All right. Um, I mean, one of the first experience, first experience of just sitting with myself properly, I think we'll together in Turkey and we shared more tile and we did this exercise of just one October, which is to find stillness. And we just sat there for how long would you say? About an hour roughly. And just on a stepfather and just sitting there with our thoughts. And it's also very confronting. Right. But you said something incredible in your linkedin with the had youth of Jupiter aide. Uh, I wanted you to explain that.
Isaaq: 00:22:55 Yeah. So in Hudis Braille, um, we see the first thing that happens in all of this hadith is this man enters. So you familiar with how these degrade yet as he enters, uh, and the way he is the [inaudible] as we know, uh, when he see he sits with the profits a lot of of, but if we, if we look at the description of how he sat with the profits or like us on them, how was it, how was he described as sitting with a private seller SLO? Very close to him. Yeah. The description was his knees. His hands were upon the, other than he was knee to knee. So have you ever sat with a human being knee to knee? No. That'd be a bit weird. I thought. Right? Isn't that interesting? That in today's time we don't do that? Yeah. Imagine if someone was that close.
Isaaq: 00:23:38 Let me see if I can move this a little bit closer to you right now. How did it feel the moment I just came a little bit closer. You actually use just voided eye contact in just a moment as you follow up a little bit exposed. This is no, that's what we were being taught that in the classroom. That's your approach with a teacher. You have to be pretty much present that close and you don't have to physically be that close. But your attention, what you bring to that, that interaction is, is sitting with this presence. But my question is is that if that's all we're told to be, to have a real conversation, to have a real intimate conversation where, and you know, unfortunately this one world intimacy is lost. That's why the definition of intimacy is a joke.
Tanzim: 00:24:20 Yeah. To bounce a few. Um, I know that because in nowadays like, cause I like reading about like orientalism and stuff. So how the British came to India, they came as a white man with a suit and all that. So they came in and tried to implant meant the education system. Right. And so their version of the education system or how you have to be educators that have classrooms, have the teacher at the front of the board and we've kind of a doctor in this day and age as well. But then what they didn't realize is that you can actually gain experiential knowledge through, you know, Susie Sufism will prevail in the India Day with like many Sufi orders and stuff as well. But they were blind to see that, you know, they thought their way was the only way to gain, you know, knowledge is to, you know, one teacher at the front of the board for board and you have the whole class. But what you've described is actually, you know, if you look at, um, Islamic history, I think, um, [inaudible] don't have like a circle and people really close. That's how we learn.
Isaaq: 00:25:16 Isn't that interesting? That that's how we learned with other human beings. What about ourselves? Have we ever sat with ourselves in that manner? Have we ever been that close with ourselves? This is what Malik was, was getting at. That what you're forced to do in those moments of sitting with yourself is your exposed to yourself. You know, if you just say quiet for a moment and you just reflect, why is it people are so an easy in those and they, oh, they can't do it half the time. And we'd be do at the start of the session is because all this stuff's asked to come to surface and I don't want to deal with it, sire. I'd rather just talk about something else, right? But what you're supposed to do, sit with that for a while. Start to compartmentalize it, and you can start to make sense of yourself even in that situation.
Isaaq: 00:25:59 It's interesting that you went to, and no doubt that was the case and what the British and the influence that that happened during that period. But right here, right now, what can we do about it, right? What we can do about it and what I can do about it. And this is all about empowering the south. This was why it's called knowing yourself, not knowing others because you can known or know others. You can observe them. But we want to try to observe, observe ourselves for a while because the power, most of it lies within ourselves. In fact, this was called m a R K and mom cause Ali called his book the Alchemy of happiness, which is essentially by yourself. You are the base methods and how via your own process, by and by knowledge of yourself, you can transform yourself into gold. So it's all within within the staff and that's why I lost [inaudible] la. Come on full circle.
Isaaq: 00:26:50 Very or you believe you know literary trasy La come officer come there, you know you'll yourself is upon you and in a, in a slightly looser translation is take care of yourselves. Another, the chronic loss aes, one out of [inaudible] and a [inaudible] for unsal, hormone facade, Hula would fire support. Whenever we hear versatile Koran on two things to do, isn't it? Look out for the nouns and look out for the verbs. Nan's indicate to you, do you want to be a part of that group or not? So if you want, if you don't want to be a part of that group, then avoid their verbs. And if you want to be a part of that group, then follow their verbs. And also you can find if you are from them. Cause if you're doing that verb then you know which group allows pointing you in right now in that current state.
Isaaq: 00:27:28 So when you see will I go home on fast? So you here is the fast six, right? The transgressors the one who go above the above and beyond the boundaries. So what does he say? He says and he's also wanting, using well outer corner like don't be killed Lavina like those not so low. Forgot a and, and you know, it'd be interesting to ask people what would, what do you think would the B would be the response or what would the law say about those who forget a lot. And you would think that in a modern understanding it would probably be, you know, they would get punished or they will do some scene or something like that. What is the last day? Well at a conical Lithion and a salon for unsolved fuss, a home, you know, hit the response of a gang us, he made them forget themselves.
Isaaq: 00:28:10 So the people that we know, we've met in our lives who are busy and preoccupied with everyone else but themselves are some of the most ugliest in character people to be around and irritating and causing discomfort. There's already a discomfort in idea. I know my own sins. Oh you add onto it like I'm, you know, and I, you know, I met this one student of knowledge once and I was so happy to see how much he'd been studying and I asked him also, what project are you working on? Cause I like to see that the guys who've been studying to be a bit creative and how can we take this to the next level? You know, that what we've learned and, and he said, I'm writing a reputation against an, and it was a pen as a predominant Scott or like a really famous scholar.
Isaaq: 00:28:55 And I thought what a waste of it. Like [inaudible] do not have your own sins to be writing a reputation to your soft lane. I'll be that unaware of ourselves that that in my day with the sense that I have that I'm going to spend this day talking about what when I do that workshop I just get a free therapy session for myself cause I'm of one of the temperaments and I'm constantly reminded of like where I'm going wrong cause I'm going wrong, we're all going wrong and things. But this is the, this is the, the, it's very, very interesting. And then you link that with the other versus [inaudible] of the lot of salon where he sees man hustle Islam or murder Taco Humala yeah, from the beauty of a person's Islam, which is also interesting about elicited this, I mean hustle Islam and Hustle Islam. Like you know, you can just look at that statement or that phrase, sorry, mean hustle Islam from the beauty of a person.
Isaaq: 00:29:49 Islam from a beautiful Islam. So the fact that he saying beautiful Islam, is there another part to Islam? Could there be an ugly Islam or the ugliness of an Islam? And he says, men Hustler Islam and mud of a person Turkle who to leave Marla I knee that which does not concern him that which has no Montana for him. No meaningful him. So you know all these people when they, when they focused on, sorry about that nod. So when people are focused on others, right, what type of Islam is that? But when you're focused on c from P, your purpose is to leave that which is a concern. You wha what he, what he or she is going through it. Realism has no meaningful me and that becomes a beautiful Islam now. And isn't it beautiful when we meet those people who are just, no. Someone says, how did you hear about so and so did was I got to do with me? And you just find a peace. The moment someone says that the unrest that was in your heart that caused you to speak cause that's how it works. Most people speak cause of an unrest going on and they speak Lydia Brown measures. I was a very interesting to think about that. But when that happens and someone just diffuses it, I as no mean
Tanzim: 00:30:53 I wanted to ask is, um, even from my perspective, I feel that I might be wrong. I'm like, you know, Russell are so some may have had what? Like we follow the HEDIS, we do our best. We can, um, to emulate his character. But wouldn't that mean that he has like one temperament and then we all have to become one
Isaaq: 00:31:12 permitting eventually non or [inaudible]. The point really isn't to become one temperament. The point is to balance ourselves to be the appropriate, to display the appropriate temperament in whatever the situation requires me to be. Sometimes the situation requires me to be an inner energetic sandwich. Sometimes the situation requires to me be to be an intense melancholic, diminish time to study. There's no time to be a distracted sanguine yes, it's a time for me to be, uh, a focus, serious studying melancholic. When it's time for me to set up an organization or work with an organization, it's time for me to be cleric and to get up and go right. Or when an injustice is taking place for me to speak about it. It's time for me to be cleric. But when there's a lot of noise taking place and everyone's, everyone's getting their comments in, then it's time for me to be phlegmatic and just be a bit passive right now and be peaceful and avoid conflict.
Isaaq: 00:32:05 So what the province has on display, he displayed perfectly each, he displayed the best response to any situation. That's what we need to work towards. And what you see in the foreclosure far is you see, you do see is very interesting, honestly is like the arrows example you just gave and you see that one and then you see them by the end of their lives and you see almost, you see this growth, which is quite difficult to understand sometimes because the melancholic temperament, that intense deep, sometimes almost timid to be able to in his later on in his to display such great. Uh Oh such great courage. Like Abu bakr RA who did not let, I want to say I speak about the negatives of any of them, but you know, our motto, the law at the start of it, he was, he's a clearly a collogue temperament and you see how he was as a person, as a cleric and how he, Eh, like in the Jahiliyyah Times, how many Arabs actually carried out those Jahiliyyah principles. Do you think all of them did that? No. Only those fiery cleric types we took on those principles and did that. But when Islam came, look what he did with the principles of Islam.
Tanzim: 00:33:15 Well, no, it's like, um, what you said about exercising the right temperament the right time. I know like O'Mara younger who we know through the Sierra very, you know, out there, um, at times portrayed as angry, um, he just wants to like kill someone that did something wrong. But then when he becomes Kaylee, like you'd be crying on the minbar run alone,
Isaaq: 00:33:34 almost displaying the, displaying the complete opposite of his, her temperament. You know why that was? Because they had the best soft development going on under the best temp, under the best mentor ever.
Tanzim: 00:33:44 And even Apple Walker or the on who act, people seem as soft easily to push around. And I know that, you know, the was, he became like more fierce and stern and had to like deal with that situation as well. And even on a, I'm Omar Radovan who like, I think what people have said, I think even during the time of [inaudible] with his family, he said that if, um, his daughters came up to him, he would just be giving them anything you want. Like not exercising that character of, you know, aggressiveness. What we seem to think it has in the public.
Isaaq: 00:34:15 Yeah. Because what happens when you give fire a system, if you leave fire without a system, it'll just burn the forest down. But if you give it a system, which is what they need, then you see that fire running steam engines and covering vastus distances. And in fact, when you look at his expansion, the expansion and the Ahmad was the greatest expansion over the fall. So it's like controlling my and look what it's able to do. Control Water and look at the balance that uh, the, the, the, the, the response that has a man had Rhodiola. I know, but again, to not, I mean sometimes people who don't have an understanding of the four temperaments properly, we look at what we're saying right now and maybe misunderstand, and this is why I always say to people as we're doing the workshop halfway through a new kind of did this as well.
Isaaq: 00:35:02 And this is national id. This is, once we start looking at the four temperament, we start looking at that person that we know. Then we start working at the, formulating our understandings or co constructing our understandings of the four archetypes based on that person. And that's when you make a blend that don't do that. Don't, don't say so alma is the correct. No, just say understand the caloric. Once you understand the cleric, once you understand the science, once you understand the principle, well, once you understand that the archetype, then you make sense of awareness of everything else. But once you understand it properly and that's why you need, you have to study the science problem. And I think what
Malik: 00:35:38 you were saying in terms of the federal actually dean, the best schooling that they had was that also sys on them and kind of connect into your point about, you know, traditional settings. Um, and I think if you look at any perfect traditional sending, which the Paul Sys on have set out for us was that, you know, he came in as a person who was not teaching us theology who came as a person, this is what I want to be. Our teacher says that he was experiencing gone. Right? And so now because we don't have the prophesies them, you know, we're trying to articulate that experience. Right? And so, which is important. I think what the prophesies tell him did, he gave him the proper dosage to every single one of them. And their training ground was like second to none. And I think, which is why, you know, when we're taught [inaudible] for example, you can go through the attributes of a loss of a handle, Tyler, right?
Malik: 00:36:33 But what our teacher says is that does a really resonate with you, a will to sit down and think about La. And when you do that properly, right, you're sitting with yourself first, right? And you're reflecting on, you know, the attributes of God and all these, or all the attributes of the last panel to Ireland and the profits, uh, Cetera, which is why I find, you know, this is a natural step to really sit down with yourself and to know yourself and where you fit. And then everything else, just, it's like that Meese missing puzzle puzzle right now. So I'll move out of people.
Isaaq: 00:37:10 50 odd, 60 71 ladies who, 17 California. She said to me in the workshops, she said, and I wish I knew this when I was younger, when I was raising my children. She said, but you know, at least I can use that. My grandchildren, they're a 50 year old man came. And he was quite skeptical about that. His temperament throughout the workshop is quite skeptical I could sees from his reactions. And then he came up to me and he said to me, uh, he goes, uh, I'm a physicist. They both started laughing and then, uh, and then he just said, he goes 50 years. And he goes, and I had questions I can never get the answers for, but I never find the answers for you. So now I'll find it. And that's not because this workshop is also amazing or anything like that. It's because the science is the, it's always been, the human beings have always been using that science, maybe two and a half thousand years, far more consistent than the other ones.
Isaaq: 00:38:02 Right. You know, the, think about it, all these TVs out there, and you've got this theory that lasted two and half thousand years and it's still being developed. And so, uh, you know, and it's, it's worked in so many different environments, so many different, um, people have different backgrounds. And, uh, it's just been an honor and a pleasure really. Honestly, people look at this and they say, Oh, you know, it seems like it's a successful project. It's whatever allows, want, wants it to be in terms of a success. We don't measure success by how things manifest in this world. That's not how we measure success. We don't measure success. You can't measure success of this podcast based on the hits. You measured the success as Russell told us, how do we measure success in the Malott Amal, who've been Nia, you intended this to change the life of this podcast to change the life of a million people.
Isaaq: 00:38:53 Then that's why you'll get your milk Yammer if you've sincerely believed that that's all. It's a good memory for myself. Sometimes I get caught up with the stats [inaudible] and that's why we do that moment at the start where we ask ourselves one of the activities you do at the start. Maybe you can do this with yourself right now and maybe those who are anyone's listening, even listening to this podcast. The question I'll ask you is to ask yourself, why are you here? Why did you set this up right now? Why are those who are listening, listening, answer that question in your mind? Can I answer it low? You can answer it a lot. But the reason I would say is answer in your mind is because it's far more raw in your mind and it's, it's far more real in your mind. And then ask people to write it down.
Isaaq: 00:39:35 But if you do want to share it because you're strong boy. Yeah, go on. Go on tiger. So while we started was, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like just a reason. No, no. I'm asking right now cause we have to, when we talk about heart, what's your heart saying right now? Why are you here right now? I know what you did it then. I mean I'm sure we can have that conversation and that, but that's about the podcast there. Bob, what about here? And now, when did you wake up and set this thing? Or what did you respond to? Malik's text. Right? And pause there. And now ask yourself is very different almost. Right? But that's the real talk. Welcome to being real, right? Yeah. So now let's go with that and why that, why did you want that? Alright. So even though we were listening and you keep going and we do this at the start, we just keep going.
Isaaq: 00:40:32 Why? And then there's a bunch of people who have said settle there and see. So as I'm doing it, there's others who are like, you were like thinking and you see the smile coming by and like, really? I didn't see that coming. And there's others out there who, right, why am I here? Oh Law, what a Saudi, he [inaudible], he a lost the seeking a lost pleasure and the pleasure of the soul to put it down. And they sit there like this. And I say, why that? Why are you seeking a law? You have a throw by that. And they go, oh, okay. It's not that transfer is the natural answer. And it's a good answer. But keep going and really find out why, why you're here. Cause the, for the first time in your life, you're probably gonna hear, you're probably going to hear the statement of your current state.
Isaaq: 00:41:21 It's very interesting to hear that because it might not be nice, but if you can tune it, it becomes beautiful. Becomes incredibly beautiful. That's why when that mom and that Russell Sass and was sitting into the tree arresting and that man came with the sword and he said, oh Muhammad, who's going to save you from me? What are the sole source mc? Just take that in for a moment. Resting. You know what? What happens in Viet, we're resting for a moment and someone say something and you just respond with what our state is responding and that's why in the morning what you think are gives you an indication as to where your state is for that day. If you run to your business, if you're onto your phone, if you're antici see the stats and that's what you're at, that's where you're at, man. Yeah, that's where you're at. But what was the Russell sort of some state, the moment he a law and one of the wire, I'll say that when he said a law, he said it again and again and again is imagine that all sorts of fun sitting there. This guys look at is there a law, a law, a law [inaudible] and then, and then what happened? Then the metaphysical reality of the [inaudible] sort of affected the physical reality, the physics of that man. What happened after that? He dropped the sword.
Isaaq: 00:42:43 He ended up here. Then there are some picked 11 and boy, today's who is going to save you from me? Well she your state saying what's interesting about that as well, going back to now, man, I'm in the app, right? So that person might never had the intention to kill the pro's ice on them. All right? But we only in control of their intention, I lie, controls the outcome. So even though he had the intention to kill a, like control the outcome, and that's with everything, it's like really deep. It's like the, the immaterial affecting the physical. Exactly. Philosophy. 100% right? 100% and that's why like, oh, this is quite deep. What is this called? Human interaction. Welcome to the club. Right? Unless we used these only because this is action. Action, right? This button, which is action buttons, right? Just respond. But under this, the actions, actions, the human being is far more. And if I sat here just being this person, I'm supposed to be in this podcast, then we'll just have the conversation up to that level. But if I start to be rebate more real, I'm as to why I'm really, yeah, you don't think I was answering when I asked the wise even I was answering those and I love it because every time I read the workshop, I'm there writing my own intentions as well.
Isaaq: 00:43:58 Why am I here? And then, you know, it was amazing. One of the girls in the, in the workshop yesterday, she said, ah, Sunday she said, and the students, she said, oh, it's just like the five why's at Toyota. I was like, wow. She says, oh, into altar. They do this as well to really er for their personal development. I mean, they're doing this for cars. They're doing this for cause. The advertising companies using the four temperaments to make money of you to make more money. A few, at the very minimum, I say in the workshop, at the very minimum, very minimum, use the temperaments to make money for yourself. And you know what people did. I've had people message me two weeks after saying, I just wanna let you know I got a job from the temperaments from the workshop. Yes.
Isaaq: 00:44:42 It's where you take it and if you want to get to God and get to goodbye. Did you want to come to know yourself, get to come to know yourself via,
Isaaq: 00:44:49 I wanted to ask you in just in terms because cause we probably didn't break out and break down the four temperaments specifically. Could you just give like a quick around dance so maybe someone can kind of identify who they are personally. So really, you know the, the workshop itself is quite long and yeah,
Isaaq: 00:45:03 one of the reasons is because if you get like a really short shortened version, you probably won't believe it. I think anyway. And I, that was the case with me, but I'm just to, you know, for the sake of the podcast, I would say this, this fall, there's these four types which are again, as I mentioned, everyone has a major and then a secondary. So you have a dominant, a temperament and a sub dominant. And this is very interested in the combination. So you have a, the sanguine is what we call the [inaudible], the popular sanguine. They like spring, wherever they go. There's joy, very optimistic, fun, energetic, loving, sincere, that type of a person. Then you have your phlegmatic person, which is your peaceful phlegmatic. Uhm, does avoid confrontation, good listener, good emotional intelligence, right? There's that type of four person and there's the melancholic, the deep, intense melancholic.
Isaaq: 00:45:52 Uh, th their type of a, of a, of a persona or their personality is more of a, a, um, it's one of, uh, uh, seriousness, a grounded, realistic, um, and, and, and ideals based, and they sometimes seen as being pessimistic or being negative, but they're not actually negative. Um, they're just, uh, optimistic. They're just, um, idealistic. So they have ideals and because no one matches up to ideals cause ideals like closeted perfection, right? And because people don't matter to perfection, what happens then is it comes across as if they're being negative because you're not good enough. And that's where they love their books. Because in the books they find all the ideals, but in the real world it's like, and you write a, and then you have your cleric, which is a, the powerful cleric, the fiery type. So you have the sign one, which is the airy type and we call those characters the airy fairy type.
Isaaq: 00:46:46 And the, the, the phlegmatic is the watery type. And the war element for them is water. That was by Paracelsus in the 16th century. We made these connections but others made it as well. And then the melancholic is like earth grounded and full of full of jewels. We've just got to work to it. And that's why they're quite intense in the phlegmatic and the melancholic other, the introverts and then the cleric and the sanguine are extroverted and so you fire your fire and your ar are a lot more, uh, you know, uh, they make the impact there. And then in that moment and the melancholic and the flag are a bit more slower to react because there's a lot more consideration taking place. And that's why they introverted and that's why they, they contribution manifests over a longer period of time. Um, so that, that's, you know, a nutshell.
Isaaq: 00:47:29 So people would really, um, and again I wouldn't say where would you put yourself, cause you're going to put yourself where you want to put yourself. So I would say is that if all the people around you, if you were to find a consistency in, in what people were to say about you, what would they say about you? Would they put you as a fiery type? Would they put you as a, as a, as a airy type of person but wouldn't? Because I know people say that all I'm out there, people who have interacted with you, they'll, there'll be like a thousand different perceptions of yourself. Yeah. People say that so. Well that's the other thing. And that's why I would say don't ask just some random person that you know or don't ask that person at your workplace cause you're gonna be at your workplace or all these places you're gonna be at these places according to that situation.
Isaaq: 00:48:12 Or I would say is what are you like when you're with your friends, when you're in your element, and I mean friends, friends, like your homeys people, people who know you from back in the day or soy, your siblings cause they're siblings, you know, siblings are the ones you can't fake it. They'll just look at you and they'd be like, really? You were sharing a story, a story about that impair yourself in terms of when you found out about your own temperament. Yeah. Yeah. Can you expand on that? Yeah, that was interesting. Um, so I mean I was abroad and I was studying and then we were living in Jordan at that point. And uh, and I thought my temperament was of I, it was a particular temperament, but that was because I was living a particular life that wasn't my, like necessarily my comfort zone, especially when you leave your country and you start reading and whatever.
Isaaq: 00:48:55 Um, but it was actually an evening where some of the students had come out and it was all mostly westerners and we went out for one evening and we were just in, it was a social and that was the day where I wasn't, you know, my jihad against my knifes and all the hard work I was trying to do and trying to be this person that was a day off for me. It was just, I just need to chill right now. You know, do what I do. And it was on that day I discovered that my nerves, that's my temperament. And that's why this is useful because that's the guy who would always be there. So even at your workplace, at your law firm, you're trying to be this fiery law person, whatever. But when you go home, sometimes that just takes a lot of stress out of you because that's not who you are.
Isaaq: 00:49:33 And that one who you are when you're in your element, when you're in your comfort zone, that's how you recognize your temperament. But again, some people come to the workshop and figure out the temperament. Not everyone does. At the very minimum, you know which one you're not. So, you know, I feel that part popular sanguine and you know you are. And if you're not, you'll say, I don't know which one I am from the other three, but I'm not that person. Right. Process of learning via the opposites. This is a really extremely good tool to use to be honest. Um, but it's like that. And so I had, I had an evening I with some of the friends and I realized, oh my gosh, like I am clearly that temperament. But then there's also the books and when we do the workshop by the end, I just introduced the science and then I recommend the books and they're all in the notes and, and I let people go in and read about them. And then, um, and it was amazing. I was in California and uh, as a 50 year old man who came to the workshop and his daughter sent me a picture of her dad and he bought like the four, five books and like three others by the same authors. And he just was starting this journey of self discovery national. And it's just,
Tanzim: 00:50:34 I feel like I'm two questions to that first one. Come, comes to my head cause it Kinda hits me personally. Right. So I have said this, I've touched on the story, I'm in the past in previous episode, but you see my personal story, um, I wasn't that much into the [inaudible] key 10 when I was in high school. And I know for a fact that [inaudible], you know, I used to get a bit bullied and stuff, so I was in like myself. But then because society and then you see clubbing drinking stuff, you want to be more extrovert with just people around you. So I think I'd be like, you're nine, 10, 11. I tried to be that extroverted guy. I don't know other people perceive of me, but I thought myself, like myself is just being out there extroverted. Um, fun, cool. Make everyone laugh. That sort of guy.
Tanzim: 00:51:21 But then I remember distinctly, and this kind of coincide with going to dean, but every time I'd go home if I go to sleep, my house so empty, like I could feel like very distinct emptiness and I could they also distinct that this day if I reflect or I can still feel how I felt. Right. But um, and then when I started like university, Uni humble, go connect, I'd like mostly like I was always connected with the dean but wasn't like on in depth. Right. And then first unique or connect with brothers and I'm lie not being part of MSA, being part of the clique. My personality from external level, just like flipped. Like it went from that external like you know, out extrovert guy, this and that to like more in my own area. Like more like back then always wanting to be with people and hang out. But then now it was just like, I want to be one, so I just want to be alone. And then like the fulfillment, like the man, like the feeling in your heart when he, I guess have that Yakin it's just like Savannah. Like, I experienced that, but I felt like I feel like you can take like a temperament lens on my experience cause I thought it was more so the fact that I was in practicing it, then I became practicing. But yeah.
Isaaq: 00:52:31 Well you see, yeah. And that's, that's a question people always ask that in a, how can I work out in my past, which bit was my temperament, which was my native, which was my load change or did I want you saw a con to the theory on the science is that our primary never changes. And I got a feeling, I kind of know which one you are. And normally I switch it off, but I knew you'd be asking part of this because that's what I have to do. Um, cause otherwise I've just always seen people via that lens on ashes switch off and lumber. Like I learned to switch off. And it's wonderful because I take people as they are rather than all these assumptions that I'm making. Uh, but even in this situation, people, you know, people ask all so which one's which? And, and honestly to truly work out, uh, what was, you know, what happened with your temperament is for you to really, you know, only the person who can tell is yourself, but you have to put the shift in.
Isaaq: 00:53:17 Like there's no quick answer to it. You can't just give a scenario. I can give a theory, you know, I'll share it with you. But what's important is it is that, you know, only you can really know, which was your nature, which bit was your nurture and so on. And what did you, you know, it could be a dean related thing. It could be certain sense because since causal agitation inside the heart, as we know in us, it's not always something that, you know, you being at your comfort zone or out your temperament or out your element that causes an agitation. It could just be, you know, sometimes it's a sin or sometimes it's a person who's sitting and that's not sitting well with this. Um, not to say that you know, you will something. But in terms of, you know, sometimes when that happens a person could be forced to live a cleric life.
Isaaq: 00:54:00 And one of my friends actually he sent me a recording recently back in California. He said, um, he goes, you know, this world in today's time, once people to be more sanguine and cleric, cause it's all moment based. I it's all here and now, uh, very interesting. Right? Thank you. In the marketing companies have one that yeah, 100% [inaudible] does vice general [inaudible] and then, and also like actors and you know, all these guys who are at the making the money, you know, these are very sanguine cleric type of a, our way of being and that's why people are working towards that. But if your, that's the phlegmatic person, which is what we spoke about, the start the war tree type but you're forced to be fire. Yo, you're the one who's going to be feeling really out of place right now that, you know, this is just too much for me. But the point of all of this is not to just find out which one you want to stay there. That's not the point, but that's not, I've not made this course or have not shared this course for people to just sit around and say, I'm the water type. You're the fire type. Oh my God,
Speaker 6: 00:54:58 what's the point of that? I'm not interested
Isaaq: 00:55:00 in that. And you know, and that happens. The point is, is how can I achieve what t
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