104: How tech can help save the Amazon—w/ Diego Saez Gil of Pachama

If you want to verify carbon capture for a reforestation or forest conservation project, you’re looking at a price tag of anywhere between $100K and $400K, depending on the size of the forest. But a new company called Pachama is working to make the process much more affordable and add trust to the system, harnessing AI to measure carbon capture in forests.
 
Diego Saez Gil is the Cofounder and CEO of Pachama, a startup developing the technologies to bring trust, transparency and efficiency to the forest carbon market. His team leverages machine learning to accelerate the validation of carbon captured in reforestation and forest conservation projects.  On this episode of the podcast, Diego joins Alexsandra, Ross and Christophe to explain how LiDAR technology works and discuss how Pachama is using it to measure carbon capture with stunning accuracy.  
 
Diego shares the benefits of using Pachama’s platform in terms of adding trust to the system and reducing the transaction costs associated with verifying reforestation projects in carbon markets. He also discusses the fight over development versus conservation in Brazil and describes his take on the role of corporations in reversing climate change. Listen in for insight around the need for an abundance mindset in developing climate solutions and learn how Diego thinks about carbon markets as a mechanism to align incentives on the path to reversing climate change.
 
Key Takeaways
 
[1:40] The work Diego and his team do through Pachama
Build tools to measure + monitor carbon capture in forests
Use data to validate offset projects in carbon markets
 
[3:29] How Light Detection and Ranging (LiDAR) technology works
Device uses laser to create 3D image of environment
Apply deep learning to measure biomass, carbon capture (< 1.5% error)
 
[7:08] Why we should trust that Pachama’s algorithm works
Works by comparing shapes and volumes to ground truth
Results consistent with traditional forester’s measurements
 
[9:08] The expense associated with verifying reforestation projects
Must send forester to take sample, do carbon stock assessment
Costs between $100K and $400K depending on size
 
[10:46] Pachama’s approach to onboarding new clients
Go to projects using traditional protocols for verification
Add trust to system and reduce transaction costs
 
[13:47] How we can improve the design of forestry projects in carbon markets
Base contribution to buffer pool on risk profile of individual project
Bodies that create standards usually open to ideas for improvement
 
[15:51] Pachama’s progress in its first year in business
Onboarded 10 projects in US and Brazil
Continue to add data, improve algorithm
 
[17:10] Pachama’s needs around data collection
LiDAR and ground truth numbers
Data lives in governments, universities and companies
 
[18:11] The complexity of land and development politics 
Large reforestation projects up against armed illegal loggers
Political narrative emboldens developers to exploit resources
Carbon markets create income for people in those areas
Indigenous communities should benefit most from projects
 
[24:06] Diego’s insight into the role of corporations in reversing climate change
Responsibility to benefit society at large for long term
Reduce emissions and offset what can’t in short term
 
[27:51] Diego’s entrepreneurial path to reversing climate change
Grew up in Argentina between rainforest + Andes
Took sabbatical to live with native community in Amazon
Inspired by power of nature, shocked by deforestation
Apply technology for scaling solutions to climate change
 
[30:44] How the scarcity vs. abundance mindset plays into Diego’s work
Scarcity mindset created climate crisis, abundance will solve
We’re all connected and must come together for challenge
 
[34:50] How David Grinspoon’s work influenced Diego
Love big-picture view of humanity (one of many species to change planet)
Attracted to optimism, potential for humans to be stewards
 
Connect with Alexsandra, Ross & Christophe
 
Nori
Nori on Facebook 
Nori on Twitter
Nori on Medium
Nori on YouTube
Nori on GitHub
Nori Newsletter
Email hello@nori.com
Nori White Paper
Subscribe on iTunes
Carbon Removal Newsroom
 
Resources
 
Pachama
Pachama on Twitter
Email info@pachama.com 
VERGE 19
Paris Agreement
American Carbon Registry
Verified Carbon Standard
Climate Action Reserve
The Gold Standard
The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming by David Wallace-Wells
GreenBiz
Y Combinator
Buckminster Fuller
Earth in Human Hands: Shaping Our Planet’s Future by David Grinspoon
David Grinspoon on RCC EP047
Carl Sagan
Lynn Margulis
James Lovelock
A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life’s Purpose by Eckhart Tolle
Eric Kornacki on RCC EP082